REMIX! Tamas Piros on islands architecture, Astro and media usage
Bryan Robinson 0:13
Hello, everyone, welcome to another stacked episode of That's My Jamstack. The podcast where we ask that best-of-all question, what's your jam in the Jamstack. I'm your host, Bryan Robinson . And this week, we've got another. That's My Jamstack REMIX.
Bryan Robinson 0:32
We welcome back to the show Tamas Piros. Tamas Piro is a developer experience engineer at Cloudinary, and the founder and educator at Jamstack.training. Let's go ahead and dive in.
Bryan Robinson 0:54
All right, well, Tamas. Thanks so much for coming on the show again, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. Thank you very much for for having me. It's good to be back. Yeah, as I say so. So this is another one of our remix episodes where we're having a guest that was previously on two seasons ago, two years ago, almost to the day on this recording. We talked in 2019. Now, this will probably come out in January, and it's December right now, but it's almost two years. So I guess give us give us an update. What are you doing nowadays for work and for fun, and all that good stuff.
Tamas Piros 1:26
Okay, so work didn't change that much. So if people listen to that episode, or people know who I am, then I still work at Cloudinary. The only thing that changed is that I am no longer a developer evangelist, but I am now a developer experience engineer, which is more, you know, esoteric, so to speak. It's a it's a fancy term describing pretty much the same stuff, in my opinion. But I like that now. I'm, I'm recognized as an engineer, which I am, as opposed to just, you know, someone thought that I was a priest, because I'm an eventually.
Bryan Robinson 1:58
So evangelist was always a weird title in general.
Tamas Piros 2:01
Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, so it's just more described what I do. But yeah, in terms of that, you know, no, no real, real changes.
Tamas Piros 2:09
What I do for fun, I still do, you know, Jamstack, I see lots of stuff for Jamstack, I started to sort of look into what I label emerging technologies, which is, you know, not necessarily relevant to the Jamstack, you know, kind of things like rust or WebAssembly, that kind of stuff. In fact, I've done a lot of talks on web assembly in the past, you know, two years. And it's, it seems to be a very popular topic. But that's, you know, that's not related to jumps. So let's talk about that. Now.
Bryan Robinson 2:37
Tamas Piros 2:56
Bryan Robinson 3:40
Yeah. And so, so Cloudinary, so Cloudinary. And if I remember correctly, two years ago, you had just started a side project called Jamstack.training, right? How's that been going?
Tamas Piros 3:50
That's, that's, that's right. So yeah, I think when we first thought I had one course on there, which was a very generic sort of introduction to the Jamstack. You know, no tech involved, just just me explaining in, obviously, in terms of what the Jamstack is, and then decide became very popular, you know, in this two years, I know have, you know, very close to 2000 students, I have 11 courses up there. And all of those courses are still free.
Tamas Piros 4:18
And I am now you know, sort of applying or making some changes to that site purely because I've been doing this for free for two years. And I'm using a platform, I have a domain these costs money. And I see that a lot of people love the content, I did experiment with adding the price tag to the courses. And then signups just literally stopped. So that wasn't that good. It wasn't working. And then ever since the courses are free again, I get the usual, you know, 356 10 signups per day, which is really nice. And so what I'm doing now is I am now accepting sponsors and I'm doing sponsorships. So, I did talk to some companies, but I'm just going to say this here as well, in this recording that if there's any company or anyone who wishes to sponsor, just like the training, I have three packages, you know, you can, you know, just put your logo on, you can have like a custom landing page, you can have your own video course, I can produce a video course for your produce and record a video course there's lots of options. So I would be, you know, I would love to have some conversation with people and organizations about this. And, and also, I'm, you know, in parallel to that, I'm recording a brand new course now.
Tamas Piros 5:40
So I'm looking at Astro, which is a, an interesting tool. From from what I've seen, I'm putting together a sample application with it now. And then I'm going to create a another free video course about Astro, just covering these basics. And you know, I'm still not sure what I'm going to build, although I have an idea, Mike is going to be probably a very simple landing page, showcasing the capabilities of Astro. Nice.
Bryan Robinson 6:06
So I think it's relatively obvious just from this early part of the conversation, how you're using Jamstack philosophies, obviously, you're teaching a lot of them. And I'm assuming Jamstack training is built using Jamstack technologies, but I kind of want to sidetrack a little bit since you brought up Astro, I've only scratched the surface of Astro, I've done kind of my first lap in it as well, what kind of drew you to wanting to do some some coursework around that.
Tamas Piros 6:30
Bryan Robinson 8:04
So you, you kind of name drop there, the islands architecture, what does that mean?
Tamas Piros 8:09
Bryan Robinson 9:44
every I feel like and that was that was kind of a setup question, right? Because I actually am super jazzed about islands architecture. I think it is. Like it's what I'm most excited about for 2022
Tamas Piros 9:55
Testing my knowledge then I feel like university.
Bryan Robinson 9:59
No, I was just kind of like what I was like, let's, let's let the guest actually speak and do the do the description. But you know, this, like this idea that like, the differing again, it's like, it's the idea that we have these best practices that I think we've all known about for a long time, about making sure that things load as fast as possible, get on the page as fast as possible, and then do extra stuff. But I feel like it's the promise of the frameworks, right? It's, it's what we, what they said a decade ago, like when react was first coming out. But like, finally realized, and something a little bit bigger, like, oh, you know, React is, is just the view layer for little components on your site. But what happened over the course of that decade, was we saw react and similar frameworks take over the entire site. And now I mean, even with stuff like with NextJs, and Nuxt, and all that, like seeing, seeing it transition in a way that still ships HTML over the pipe, but then becomes interactive, I feel like islands architecture with with Astro I think there's, I think it's called Isles there's a view or a view, similar concept called isles and, and slinky with the Levante. I think that these kinds of projects are kind of the future of how we're gonna be doing stuff, at least that's, that's my gut feeling on it right now, having built like, two demos, right?
Tamas Piros 11:23
Oh, that, you know, we're experts, we should put this in our CVs. I know, I think we are the, you know, the starting point of something incredible, you know, it's, as you said, you know, went from single page architectures to server side rendering to then, you know, mix and matching the two, and then, you know, server side plus hydration rehydration. And now we arrive to this, you know, Ireland architecture, first of all, we are in a time where everything gets developed really fast, and things move at a pace that I can't even, you know, comprehend. And we also in a in a state where we don't know what the next big thing is going to be, can only guess. And then, you know, we settle down or maybe say, you know, hey, use the island architecture is the next thing. And if we meet in a podcast a year from today, and we're like, oh, my coworkers so wrong. Or we would like yeah, we told you, it can go both ways. But you know, at this point of time, I really like the idea, and like, what Esther was trying to do and how they're trying to do it. But yeah, it will take time, you know, because not everyone is just going to build a blog or a, you know, like a steady website, because it's the almost like a de facto example for the Jamstack to be on the blog. I just wonder if there's, there's going to be more use cases for the likes of Astro. In terms of what's, you know, applications, we can develop, like, you know, what, if I want to do an E commerce site, what if I want to do, like, a social media site? Like, is that possible. But we'll see.
Bryan Robinson 13:00
Tamas Piros 14:26
when I see value in having less choice is you know, just thinking about all these sort of companies that offer, you know, web development and web design services to, you know, to restaurants to as you said to you know, some sort of any sort of business. So in order for them to to get up and running and create a production ready website is now going to be super easy, right? Because they now have this tool. And they can also you know, if I go back to this idea about the components and how you can recreate reuse these components. Now imagine, if you own a business and you help restaurants, right, you could almost have a component written in React that does something very generic, maybe like, you know, displays the, the menu or the other drinks or allows you maybe embeds a map. And now you can just state a React component and put it into any astral project, you know, very easily. And so maybe that's that's the, you know, that's where the value is. And maybe it's not for large enterprises, but more for like, you know, smaller businesses trying to build websites for other smaller businesses
Bryan Robinson 15:34
also really enjoyed the philosophy. They've got around the multiple frameworks, right, like view, spelt, react. Yeah, all of them are like, first class citizens and Astro. And, I mean, theoretically, you can have a component that's a view component react, put its component on one page, that feels like you probably don't want to do that just for like a performance standpoint, like no matter how much they sit that down. But like, if you had a React company, let's I worked in an agency as a PHP agency, and we had a lot of people who were good at React. And then we were having to pivot. We had some turnover, we had some new people come on, that had different strengths. It was a completely new, like learning experience, like our new lead Dev was a view dev as opposed to reactive that we had before, we could still have been using Astro. Like if that this had existed back in the day, we would have just swapped out a few of the components to render the HTML at that point. So even that front end architecture, it's really just how we render the HTML, which is, I think, pretty exciting.
Tamas Piros 16:35
I think so I've been giving this some thought. And I would love to hear you know, if someone knows the answer to this, or if someone is, you know, actually involved in Astro and knows the answer to this. I love the fact that yes, I can have you know, react and view and swells in one project. My question is why, you know, it's not, it's great. But so here's the thing I remember many, many years ago, I wrote an article where I created a, an Angular components. And then angular had this for probably this, you have this feature whereby you can create, you can actually generate a web component based on an Angular component that you have. And then now that you have a web component, you can just use it as a web component. And I imported that into a view application. And it worked. And I wrote about this. I wrote a blog posts, I post into various pieces. And then the most common question comment I got was great. But why? Maybe so you create something in a language that you're familiar with. And then you can now put it into another project. Why do you learn but you know, what is the? Again, I love our show? And nothing, as far as I'm sure, you know, but what is the value that it adds that I can use multiple frameworks? I'm trying to figure this one out.
Bryan Robinson 17:55
Yeah, I think I think that idea of being able to add into one project is probably it's a little bit a little bit of a weird thing, right? Like I think that's that's a very like one off every once in a while, you might need this sort of thing. I think the power of that is an adoption power. Right? So if I'm, if I'm a view Dev, I can use Astro from react, Astro.
Tamas Piros 18:20
It doesn't matter what background I have, I'm going to end up having with a very sort of powerful slash performance static page. Yeah, I can I can see it because because I was thinking, you know, why would I have a React view swelled in one province clear, because I was thinking about that, like having everything in one project. And maybe you're right, it's have to think about just almost like silos? Maybe Maybe that's the answer.
Bryan Robinson 18:45
I mean, that the upside of individual frameworks in one project might be that, like, there's a really great component, that's NPM installable, the React version is okay. But the view version is amazing and has all these additional features, I can now use the View version on a page in my Astro build, and keep all my other stuff the same. Now, again, like there's probably some performance concerns around that if you if in your rendering it on the front end, right, if you're doing browser or client side stuff for that. But if you just want it for the display purposes, or to generate HTML, I can use this view thing and write no code and just adopt it. But that's me who I want to write as little code as possible. So let me let me npm install something and go,
Tamas Piros 19:27
No, I think, you know, developers, we like to reuse we like reusability.
Bryan Robinson 19:33
So this has been Kevin's circuitous talk that I wasn't expecting, but has been awesome. But I do want to make sure we kind of focus on anything that you consider to be your your current jam and the Jamstack. We're talking about maybe that future jam of yours, right? Because you haven't even really, like use it. I wrote about it yet. But what are you really digging on right now? I think two years ago, we talked big about back when the Jamstack was still an acronym, right? The A and the Jamstack and API's and that sort of thing. But But what are you digging on right now? I
Tamas Piros 20:04
Bryan Robinson 24:11
Tamas Piros 24:25
Bryan Robinson 24:42
Cool. So so the jam is still API's, but the API is hopefully making things more performant. And obviously, media is one of the biggest things to do. And I know, I've gotten the chance to not have to think about some of this because I mean, in fairness, I've used Cloudinary Right and so like At least with my static images, I just put was it like format equals auto. And I get you know, what B,
Tamas Piros 25:06
you actually use one of our competitors. If you said, Well, you said, That's okay.
Bryan Robinson 25:11
So yeah, I just make up some text sometimes that's fine.
Tamas Piros 25:14
That's fine. That's fine. Yeah, so fo, so you basically, you know, you upload your assets to Cloudinary V also act as a CDs, we get, you know, you benefit from this global set of servers, which is one performance optimization by default, you then just add f on the scroll through into the URL. And what that does is, if you open that URL in Chrome, it will serve a web p, because that's the most optimal format for making this very simple, because they do analyze the image as well. And then if the analysis says, well, actually rendering this as a JPEG is thermal performance, we do the smaller size, we would do that. But then you take the same URL, you put it into Safari, which does not support Wi Fi, it's likely that you're going to get maybe a JPEG 2000, which is a more modern imaging coding compared to this, you know, at this point, ancient, you know, just standard JPEG. And then the benefit of that, and I think I, you know, two years ago, I said this is that, you don't need to worry about any of that, all you get is a URL, you put it into your project or use one of our SDKs. And then this is just going to work magically. So you don't need to manage the infrastructure. You don't need to worry about, you know, managing the CDN or anything. All of that is taken care of by by Cloudinary.
Bryan Robinson 26:27
Awesome. So we are starting to butt up against the end of the of the runtime here. So I do want to make sure we talk about the most important question, which is, what's your musical jam right now? What are you What are you listening to every day?
Tamas Piros 26:40
I think I said this two years ago, so very close to Christmas, right? So it's, I'm all for Christmas songs. I think I've been playing them for a couple of days now, you know, like Michael Palais, and Frank Sinatra and all the core classics, like the jingle bells and stuff. So I love them. And I also said J bobbing two years ago, and I'm still listening to Jay bow. He was, you know, a Colombian, reggaeton artist, and I still I still love what he does his music. So again, I'm sorry to say no changes.
Bryan Robinson 27:11
Well, the upside is the two years ago, I learned about an entire new genre of music with with the photon and actually did research into that back then. So I appreciate that. And yeah, J Balvin. Was was awesome. I've, I've listened a few times in the in the past couple years. I'll take it. Nice. And, and yeah. So as usual, I want and and like, give you a chance. If there's anything you want promote, obviously, we talked about Jamstack training, if that's what you want to kind of throw out there again.
Tamas Piros 27:36
Yeah, I'm not going to reiterate what I said, my training, you know, free training courses. And yeah, sponsors. I'm telling you, please, please come and see me.
Bryan Robinson 27:46
And we'll have all the ways to contact Mosh in the in the show notes. So be sure to reach out. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk with us today. It's been an amazing conversation. And I hope you keep doing amazing things both with Jamstack training and Cloudinary. And everywhere that you're doing cool stuff. Well, thank
Tamas Piros 28:00
you for having me. And let's not wait two years to do this again.
Bryan Robinson 28:04
Exactly. Let's let's make it an annual Christmas time thing, right? Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks so much. Thank you. Thanks again to our guest, and thanks to everyone out there listening to each new episode. If you enjoy the podcast, be sure to leave a review rating, Star heart favorite, whatever it is, and your podcast app of choice. Until next time, keep doing amazing things on the web. And remember, keep things jammy
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Intro/outtro music by bensound.com